“Had I spent my time trying to out-sex, out-nubile, out-Va Va Voom other girls and women?” – Giselle Minoli, Women…

Ha, me neither!

Giselle Minoli , well said!  I’ve always dressed for ME.  If a guy can withstand my temperament, he doesn’t CARE what I’m wearing.

Giselle Minoli my first impressions on your post and reading the linked article in no particular order:

1. I liked “Men At Work”

2. Perhaps my perspective is different from the “average” male from having grown up in and worked mist of my adult life in the theatre where I was always aware of the difference between the costume and the personality of the woman (or man) wearing it but I have always been more attracted to a woman who dresses for herself rather then for the perceived expectations of anyone else.

3. Most of the women i know even those in marketing who are single have your attitude of dressing for themselves.

4. Except for work assignment that require formal dress or a specific dress for safety issues I prefer to wear all black not because it is trendy or even because it lets me remain unnoticed at a stage production table but because it makes me comfortable.

5. Most importantly never change who you are merely to please someone else for then you lose what makes you unique and awesome to begin with. 🙂

I dress for me as well – I wear what makes ME feel like a million bucks. 

I never understood why a woman would want to use false bait on the hook. 

Eventually he has to see you as you really are, what then? 

Seems a lot easier to have him fall in love with the real person, rather than a facade. 

(And outmaneuvering other women in textile tactics to land the trophy of procreation has never been my motive). Ahhh yes, to play with words… So many great points in your piece, Giselle Minoli, my favorite renegade. 😉

That’s very kind of you Ev Eric. I read an article about the new cop shows on TV, that run the gamut from dressing up the women to look like call girls (’cause that’s what sells?) to those shows that make an effort to portray reality in a script. I don’t know, I’ve lived in New York for over three decades and I’ve never seen a female cop on the beat dressed for anything but serious business. I get that there is such a thing as “undercover” (no pun intended), but they are not the majority of the police force. I don’t remember Hill Street Blues going down such a titillating, manipulative and insecure road, do you?

Happy New Year Bill Collins (is it too late to say that?). I am very aware that I was experimenting with early branding. Isn’t that what everyone does? So your comment was spot on. It’s just that most brands evolve (except, perhaps, with the exception of the occasional Tiffany’s and Cartier who don’t have to evolve). Dolly Parton knows absolutely that she has chosen her look because it is her persona, but I don’t get the impression that even she does it to get the attention of men. To sell magazines, maybe…but to get the attention of men? I don’t think so. Let’s ask her! 😉

Not at all Giselle Minoli and happy new year to you too. I loved this piece because you were clearly far apart from the niche they are trying to all shoehorn you into (then and now).

Sandy Fischler I feel as you do, but I recently met a man who said he “didn’t mind fake, could deal with fake, understands what fake is.” I assumed he was speaking about himself. I asked him where the onion stopped peeling in such a circumstance and he said, “Well, I suppose it doesn’t, does it?” I said, “Well, if you trust that situation then good for you…” It was very odd. But not.

Lance Hagood 😉 For what it’s worth, this was a challenging piece to write, because when I found and ordered the article I had no idea what I was going to discover. It could have gone so very many different ways. But I like a adventure. You know that…

Catherine Wells and Bob Jamieson you have embarked on what I personally think is the most challenging part of human relationships – what indeed it is we “give” to and “get” from those with whom we are in relationships. On the one hand I don’t believe in relationships…in so far as it is the verb “to relate” that matters. One is either doing that well or poorly and on some level it is as simple as that.

Catherine Wells it would be rather extraordinary if we were able (in more modern societies and cultures?) to adopt and fully embrace the free flowing structure you describe. But we have tried it to certain degrees and it causes no end of problems. Women who have access to unfettered sexuality are terribly threatening to a culture. Some would claim that we are afraid of men fooling around, but after man decades on the planet I am convinced that it is women we want to control. Removing their rights to control their own bodies is one way of doing that.

This notion of men taking care of all children because they don’t know which, exactly, is their child is interesting stuff…but in order to do that you would have to have kind and generous and responsible men. I think we are becoming perilously close to raising boys who remain boys, and personally believe this is the reason that women are outnumbering men in graduate school and are rising in the workplace. They are simply willing to do more with whatever is given to them. The situation that arose with your own husband, and his ambivalence to children, illustrates that to a certain degree. You ended up turning back to your own parents. This is not an option for so very many people.

Are women equally possessive? Yes, but I think it is in a different way. For instance, I know dozens of young women who, not able to find the right match in a mate who have adopted or raised children on their own. No so men. I simply do not think most men will say to themselves, “If I can’t find the right woman, I’ll adopt and raise a child by myself.”

Bob Jamieson I didn’t know that we shared being stepparents, although mine came into my life when they were adults (well, the two young women did, the boy was younger). The dynamic between stepmothers and their stepchildren and stepfathers and their stepchildren is endlessly written about. Stepmoms are “evil,” stepfathers are kindly Gods. This is also a cultural dynamic because we expect so much more from women than we do fro men. I did not find it at all difficult to love and relate to and care about my husband’s children with another woman. In fact, getting to know them was a delight. Were there problems? Yes. But, in my view, they arise because we teach children to love and respect and care about only their own parents…and we teach parents to mostly love and respect and care about only their own children.

Bob Jamieson I think loving a mate’s children by another person is one of the greatest spiritual gifts there is. Those boys are lucky to have you. And so is your wife! Here’s to stepparents!

Problem one: some guys have a built-in drive to have children and then leave to hunt food. There’s a study – can’t find it – about women getting the “second tier” guys who will have raise some children who aren’t their own and who won’t just leave to go hunting/fishing. So, imbalance arises if you’re seeking a population of X with (almost) X participating equally. Not to mention, its’ the 21st Century and we’re outsourcing war to the machines. This is an oversimplification of course.

Solution one: People identify like minded people and attempt to start a community that incorporates that approach and don’t worry about a population that they can’t bring in.  Best example I can think of in prior centuries is the Shakers. In modern day, gated communities. Rule of law within a small place perhaps subject to the scrutiny of larger governments and administrative divisions. 

So I don’t think I have good solutions?? Any better thoughts?

Greetings Shannon Lemos. I, too, must thank Ev Eric for suggesting you stop by. Thank you for your kind comment. When I read Ev’s comment on Mia Voss’s post, I thought this must be like certain movements in Hollywood filmmaking, you know, suddenly there is a plethora of movies on War, or bromances, or quirky Indies. There are great articles (once again) being written about the State of Female Union, and, No, I don’t think it has anything to do with Sheryl Sandberg’s book. I do think it has everything to do with the economy and the suddenly awareness that what happens to one gender (the Rise and Fall) affects the other gender (the Domino Rise and Fall) and therefore it has affected families and children and, well, all of us, in a very big way since the almost utter demise of our economy in 2008.

I remember taking a course from Anthony Robbins something like 20 years ago in New York and he asked for a show of hands from the large audience (in the smaller theatre at Madison Square Garden) of how many people had started their own businesses. Then he asked how many of them were women and the result was staggering…over 75% of new businesses were being started by women. 

I think it is absolutely in response to not wanting to do it by the Old Boys School Rules…and discovering the considerable knowledge of Stay at Home Moms, which we make poor use of. 

So there is a lot going on culturally about it. A revolution? Maybe…of a sort. The Hill will be President and everything is going to shift back into balance. This will scare a lot of people. But then again, balance has never been able to achieve has it Shannon Lemos? 😉