It is articles like this one that are killing the sexual desire of women. Our culture sexualizes yet desensitizes, deifies yet demoralizes, botoxes yet de-beautifies women every day.
A young girl’s initiation to womanhood begins with puberty, when instead of celebrating the beauty in being born female, she is warned about the Dreaded Scourge of PMS, which will surely set her life a-kilter, relegating to the back seat any serious undertaking in her young life while she is busy fighting off the demons of hormone surges within her body, which will make her the target of endless jokes from the opposite sex, frequently on sitcoms. Oh but what a laugh it will all be. But not to worry, there are pills to regulate this biological unkindness – they are called Birth Control Pills – and all shall be right with the world.
Within a decade Dreaded Scourge #2 will move into her life until you pay it proper attention – the fearsome Ticking Biological Clock – which will control her life utterly, robbing her of her sanity, turning her into a rapacious man hunter, whose every date, thought, move and decision will revolve around nabbing a father for her children. She will be a manipulative lust monstress. Employers will run from her. Mortgage brokers will fear her. She will hardly recognize herself. But don’t worry, there is a cure for this madness, too – it is called pregnancy and motherhood – and all shall be right with the world.
When her ovaries have begun to wear out, Dreaded Scourge #3, the horrifyingly scary peri-Menopause – will strike almost without warning, robbing her of her sleep, changing her body, reminding her she is no longer the most desirable creature on Planet Earth – a young, nubile, female. She will be vulnerable and question her very existence. She will become depressed. She will crave wine. And chocolate. But don’t worry, there is a cure for this disease, and pills, doctors, nutritionists and psychiatrists standing at the cash register ready to take her money, and after she spends it…all shall be right with the world.
When Dreaded Scourge #4 – the ferocious Men-O-Pause – steps out of its limousine and marches into her house, either she will want to hurl herself off a bridge or her lover or family will want to shove her off one. But then a kind person suggests a little nip here, a little tuck there, here a snip, there a snip, everywhere a tummy tuck, and she’s off and running to the Botoxologist, the plastic surgeon, the veritable full body reconstructionist, and entire towns of people will line up to divest her of her life’s savings trying to be young and beautiful and sexy and loved, yet once again. And after she returns home with a new face, a new body, a new self-image, yes, she may finally feel at peace, and all shall be right with the world.
What’s that you say? I left something out? Yes, it’s insidious Dreaded Scourge #5, running in the background like a computer, letting her know when her Libido is low and it’s time to haul herself off to the garbage heap. Soon, very soon, she will be able to eradicate this final and deadly scourge with…a pill…and all shall be right with the world.
Yes, I know. We fix our teeth. We take vitamins and eat healthy food. We take our bodies to the gym and get our hair cut. We fix our cars, our houses, we wash our clothes. We take care of our gardens and we conserve and preserve the elements that compose our lives every day, so what’s the harm in a little pill to boost our Libido when it lets us down? There isn’t any harm in it at all…except convincing ourselves that lack of Libido should be left up to a little pill to solve to begin with.
If women were paid as much attention to as stock portfolios, if they were valued more than cars, houses, golf handicaps, titles, salaries…
If life was made delicious for them the way a great chef aims to please the palates of his patrons…
If they were not turned into maids, housekeepers, laundresses, secretaries…
If they were nurtured the way a gardener tends a flowerbed, if they were protected and honored as the givers of life on Planet Earth…
If they were loved, cherished, respected, told their brains mattered, encouraged to develop their creativity and fulfill their passions…
If they were paid equally for their work…
If they were able to stand side-by-side with their partners at home, and didn’t have to fight to Lean In at work…
If the world were safe for them…
I they were told they were beautiful and important from the time they were little, then…
…Would women need that little Pill? Or would they be Excited just to be women?
I wonder…
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/unexcited-there-may-be-a-pill-for-that.html?pagewanted=1
May 29, 2013 at 11:24 am
So beautifully written, Giselle Minoli and yes, I must admit that I hung my head in a little shame at this bit because I fear I sometimes have the tendency to do this without thinking much about it:
If women were paid as much attention to as stock portfolios, if they were valued more than cars, houses, golf handicaps, titles, salaries…
May 29, 2013 at 11:29 am
Olé my dear. Excellent as usual.
May 29, 2013 at 11:52 am
Giselle Minoli Thank you for saying everything so eloquently. 🙂
May 29, 2013 at 12:08 pm
Good morning, everyone… Thank you for your sweet words and support…as always…
May 29, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Giselle Minoli I was going to link this article onto one of our mega-threads Sunday, but then I realized I had no idea how to even introduce it. There is so much provocative material that it’s hard to know where to start… like, perhaps, with the photo illustrations.
Or end… like with this: More than one adviser to the industry told me that companies worried about the prospect that their study results would be too strong, that the F.D.A. would reject an application out of concern that a chemical would lead to female excesses, crazed binges of infidelity, societal splintering.
Can’t wait to see where this discussion goes, glad you picked it up.
May 29, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Ah, Brian Titus writing this was not easy. Yes, there was so much material I could have written for days. Being Born a Woman in the United States is a disease. And what fun it is to make mountains of money off of us. It is infuriating. I wonder if the mostly men who are the creators of these pills ever think about the messages they are sending their daughters…and wives…and sons. Or is it all just compartmentalized and put in the Making Money Box.
May 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Beautiful, Giselle Minoli 😀
May 29, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Thank you for saying it for all of us women, Giselle Minoli. It’s not easy for us to set aside centuries of almost Pavlovian conditioning to look outwards, at others, to validate our self worth. If we could only decide, once and for all, to look inside and be happy with who we are – just as we are, not the botoxed re-edit – we’d find there’s so much to celebrate. I always enjoy your posts, but this one really sings. Bonne journée!
May 29, 2013 at 12:23 pm
I posted it earlier (not read yet…), and it (or I) actually skipped one of the main issues – if not the main one. How is it that early on, on falling in love her sex-drive usually is as high as his, but later on (mortgage, kids) it wanes down? Well, maybe it wasn’t all so rosy as advertised – it takes work, people and bodies change and family-life drains you. Guys ‘give up’: either they are tired of all ‘required’ fore-play or she is tired and fakes a headache. Generalizing, of course. But the main reason she tuned out is because the guy doesn’t tune in to her. Her needs and desires – her fantasies are ignored. In short: guys should become better, more devoted lovers – connecting with her, seducing her. After all, sex is a mind thing for her. But with a pill like this, we cover that up – fixing the symptom – not the cause. Sad.
May 29, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Good morning,
Thank you, reminds me how I must continue nurturing my children into happy women.
May 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Ah Denis Wallez I very much believe that it is you men who must start saying “Let us stop these messages we are sending to the girls and women in our lives. Let us stop.” Because really, those messages are sent to make men feel better. I don’t know a single woman who would do any of this were it not to be accepted by the opposite sex. Yes. Stage #1. I remember it well. I don’t, however, think a woman recovers from any stage. She carries them all with out throughout here life. I wonder, Denis, from a Buddhist POV, whether it is men’s fear of death that insists on prolonging the youth, beauty and sexual appetites of women. There’s a question for you!
May 29, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Amen!
May 29, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Morning Susanne Ramharter. Jacques J.J. Soudan apparently it is easier to tinker endlessly with the mechanics of an Aston Martin or a Ferrari than to figure out how to please a woman. After all, we are all different, aren’t we? And while there are “manuals,” there is, really, no manual, like there is for a car. You can’t flip to Page 20 and figure out what to do. I think it is supreme laziness, but it is born of an age when Microwave ovens made eating fast the thing to do, when clickers for TV made it possible never to get off the couch, when we started having “someone else” mow our lawns, chop our woods, fix our houses, raise our children.
And so we have left the nurturing and care of women to psychiatrists and dermatologists and plastic surgeons. We sort of pat our women on the bum and say, “Come back when you are fixed and raring to go.” It’s a car mentality…a car culture, an all sports all the time sitting on the bleachers way of life. Sigh.
May 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Bravo! So well written, I am left speechless!
May 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Thank you for this, Giselle Minoli. Excellently stated.
And once again I’m exceedingly grateful to have been raised by and around feminists. It doesn’t make me immune to these social pressures, but it certainly helps.
May 29, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Rather a Daihatsu. Or pc. Or multi-role shooting game. However, those are ‘escapes’ in themselves.
And although I feel that women ‘deserve better’, I also feel that a lot of men deserve better: they are not mind-readers, so they can’t even address any of her thoughts or issues. Women should express themselves better: they have all the tools, like education, access to resources – “you just don’t get it” is a cop out and doesn’t help solve anything. And no, there is no manual as such, but you write that together – over the years.
In general, we generate more noise than ever before , but we don’t communicate with the ones that matter. So there is nothing much to listen to. Let alone to improve, or, god forbid, to actually fix (which in itself would create new ‘issues’ for a lot of women 🙂
May 29, 2013 at 1:28 pm
Giselle Minoli while I agree with you about this, I have to ask myself if this is really only applicable to women?
May 29, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Giselle Minoli It’s interesting that someone like Mick Jagger at 70 is still considered sexy (yuck) yet for many women, once the other side of 40 hits there is the assumption that the breasts are not longer quite as perky, the thighs are no longer quite as tan and limber, the ass too cottage cheesy and the sexual and attractive worth of many women diminshes in the eyes of even other women.
It’s staggering to me the double standard. It has to start with men if we are to address this issue in an honest and frank manner. We, men, control the media, we control advertising, we control what gets watched each night when we all plop down in front of the TV. It’s sometimes subtle, sometimes done with the force of an anvil, and it’s wrong every time.
I catch myself doing it and I consider myself a pretty enlightened man who was raised by just my mom for most of my young life. My wife is a strong independent feminist (she’s the boss at work in addition to running two side businesses) who at the same time capitulates too often. Control is part of the sexual equation and men aren’t about to give it up without a fight.
It’s interesting when I see men with their young daughters, doting, nurturing, and obviously loving them. Are these same men going to strip clubs, watching porn, devouring movies, video games, and music that desensitize the idea of women being on an equal plane?
Often the answer is yes.
I went to two strip clubs in my life, both times to placate a boss. I despised being there and hated the men who leered, oggled, and subjected the women to degrading demands for one dollar. One dollar. That is all those women were worth to those pigs. My heart broke that these women, who at a different time played in sandboxes, had been devalued so greatly that this is what they felt they needed to do to survive. I imagine their hatred towards the men in the audience was much greater than mine.
There are many forms of devaluation of women. Strip clubs, porn, and entertainment are but one realm. The workplace in corporate America is every bit as insidious as the strip club on the other side of the tracks in your hometown. The pay may be higher, but the control and degradation towards women are just as ugly.
May 29, 2013 at 1:43 pm
Well said James Barraford
May 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm
James Barraford thank you for that personal response. I know those men of whom you speak. I have worked with them, seen them about town. They believe that their behavior toward women is harmless and they treat it as a sport, as entertainment. I think men and women both are taught from a very young age to either respect or not to respect themselves as others. Then they take those values with them into their relationships, to school, to the office.
If a man values a woman, he values himself. If a woman values a man, she values herself.
Thank you Jamie…
May 29, 2013 at 1:56 pm
I dunno … personally, I despise the medicalization of femaleness, as I despise pretty-much the entire culture of expectations and patterns of consumption around desire and the objectification of beauty. But I also resist the notion that the ‘female desire problem’ (if such really exists) should instead be solved by men buckling down and making a perpetual study of how to better promote the erotic flowering of the fragile (yet strong), mysterious (yet straightforward) vessels of Gaian Mojo to whom they’re privileged to be attached. This ‘sex is a mind thing for her’ line is … y’know … another version of what Betty Friedan called The Feminine Mystique, and it’s also part of what chains people to these patterns of perpetual dissatisfaction.
Personally, I think people aren’t nearly lazy enough . The return of the 40-hour work-week, a healthy up-tick in ‘hiring domestic help,’ healthy exercise in fresh air, more involvement in local community, and a big down-tick in consumerism, acquisitional compulsion, status-seeking through things and appearances, etc., would do a great deal more for everybody’s sex life (and general mental and physical health) than pills, on the one hand, or more neurotic fretting about the awesome metaphysics of intimacy on the other.
May 29, 2013 at 1:59 pm
John Jainschigg…then we agree on everything except that evidence has it that women have spent centuries trying to please men…loving a woman is easy…as your last paragraph suggests!
May 29, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Susanne Ramharter I don’t think men are at all immune from their own version of this. Cialis is apparently the drug of choice and Yes plastic surgery is becoming more prevalent among men and Yes I think they do feel unloved an unappreciated for themselves. Perhaps I shall write about that from a woman’s point of view….
May 29, 2013 at 2:14 pm
It’s all about conformity. As individuals we do have power: switch off your tv, buy the products you like – not the ones that make you look trendy, raise your children into independent thinkers. But, we elect egalitarian politicians that create egalitarian schools – and a society ruled by the companies that pocket the politicians.
So yes, we treat women wrongly – but also, women conform to it. They want to fit in, so they do exactly what their friends do. Without critical thinking as that is not taught in schools anymore. So they choose the wrong partners, based on some fairy tale. They spend money on the wrong shit. They watch and read the wrong stuff.
The ‘influencing’ becomes a vicious circle. We should support parents that dare to go against the flow, against main stream and religion (as in one of the previous comments). We should support individuals again – not clones and zombies. But then, we are all one big happy family – right?
May 29, 2013 at 2:19 pm
There is a NYTimes Well-Blog post from 2009 that may also be of interest to those reading the above article.
When Sex Leaves The Marriage
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/when-sex-leaves-the-marriage/
The discussion generated in that post has gone on for four years. There are still comments being made on it to this day.
It’s a fascinating, multi-layered topic that doesn’t really boil down to one easy thing, in my opinion. And it certainly touches nerves — there were over 600 comments on the piece Giselle linked the morning it was published.
May 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Genetic defect?
Hold on while I go make an extra large tub of popcorn.
May 29, 2013 at 2:50 pm
Ah, thank you for that thoughtful response…a very good distinction Denis Wallez and it makes sense in light of Buddhist talks I have attended where the topic is the avoidance of death by not be conscious of the fact that we are all going there. And, Yes, the clinging…to indeed even a certain definition of what sexual pleasure is, what it is supposed to be, how it must register…the notion that there is a right way a wrong way, a right amount, a wrong amount, that the ocean tide can ebb and flow, the Moon and Sun can rise and set, but that there must be a constancy to desire desire or…let’s make a pill!
May 29, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Giselle Minoli I am fairly certain that for most men, a pill that increases sex drive is not something they’d consider to be sending a message. It’ll receive an “awesome, bro!” and a fistbump.
In fairness to men in this particular case, they do the same for pills that make them excited.
And while I agree with most of your writing, I have to object to your characterization of birth control. It is one of the most freeing things for women we ever had. It finally allows women to enjoy sex the same way men do, without having to worry every single time if maybe, just maybe, this time they got pregnant, and their lives will change forever due to a moment of fun.
May 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm
LC Freiderici I think that if puberty, the biological clock, peri-menopause and menopause were not thought of as genetic defects to begin with there would be a different response to what is the natural flow of a life cycle. No man or woman I know doesn’t want to be beautiful for as long as possible, and to be healthy and keep their minds bright and be vigorous. But that does not mean that a pill – for men or for women – will solve, fix or make go away the desire issue. Desire is more than just our physiology. Our hearts and minds cannot be left out of the mix.
James Barraford I am heading off on a long interstate drive. I fear all your popcorn will be gone at the other side. 🙂
May 29, 2013 at 2:59 pm
For those within modern culture, it is desensitising. But those outside of it, it has different responses.
May 29, 2013 at 3:00 pm
Rachel Blum I am a long-time champion of birth control. The context in which I raised it with regard to this article is not an anti-birth control context…it is entirely different. But I would question the assertion of it conferring freedom. It has given us much, but I’m not sure freedom is the word I would use. The women I know who have gone through menopause, these are the women who I know who feel “free.” But we indeed might be speaking of it in different contexts. My post is about the various pills for women’s ills throughout their lives, including the staggering prescriptions for anti-depressants (don’t go accusing me of dismissing it when it’s necessary!). And Yes, men have a pill…but they are not subject to the same lifelong Take a Pill regarding their sexuality that women are subject to.
May 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Giselle Minoli I suggest you do not pop in your 8-track of Cheap Trick / Live At Budokan for your journey. Side 2, track 2 might not be completely appropriate for this thread… 😉
Drive safe!
May 29, 2013 at 3:04 pm
Surrender… Surrender…
May 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Back it up one track James Barraford.
May 29, 2013 at 3:07 pm
It finally allows women to enjoy sex the same way men do, without having to worry every single time if maybe, just maybe, this time they got pregnant, and their lives will change forever due to a moment of fun.
Rachel Blum but my question would be “why don’t men feel the same way about it?”. You see, that is also a sexist way to look at the “problem” of pregnancy.
I also disagree that men are not (always generally speaking, of course) extremely embarrassed to own up to lack of sex drive or potency.
May 29, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Brian Titus and James Barraford I pulled out of storage this week my Made In England Clash Tour Jacket that I haven’t worn in 35 years. Shall I sell it? Keep it? Frame it? Wear it?
I just want to reiterate my support of birth control, as used by men and by women. But…there is nothing about those pills that made me, personally, feel “free.” I was constantly worried about my endocrine system, what I was doing to the natural flow of hormones, what the long term impact would be. This is not my definition of freedom. And now, for reasons doctors don’t understand, women are going into menopause earlier, there is a lot of breast cancer among young women, our food is rife with synthetic hormones, thyroid problems in women are rampant as is depression. This is not a medical post…but I write this only to say that none of this defines “freedom” for me personally.
May 29, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Sigh, if I could wear a 35 year-old jacket of mine, I wouldn’t care if was for a Wham! tour.
OK, I’m not really advancing this discussion am I? 😉
But seriously… your point about the “freedom” of the pill is well taken. Again, so many angles to this, each with differing viewpoints. For example, there is a whole thing about the role that monagamy might play, in the middle of the article. That’s a whole 500-comment thread in itself.
May 29, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Giselle Minoli wear it. Behind Zep, Clash my fav band.
Fabulous thread with many excellent points.
May 29, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Daniela Huguet Taylor Men don’t feel the same way about it because they don’t have to face the consequences the same way women do.
And I don’t mean that from the “men are privileged” point. They will not get pregnant, no matter what they do. That’s not sexism, but a simple fact.
And if you don’t want a kid, yes, pregnancy is a problem. It takes away your choices what to do with your life. And so, without BC, women will always have to give up something, while men don’t.
Giselle Minoli I see where you come from. And I agree, it’s not the same kind of freedom. But it gives a choice where there was really none before.
And yes, it becomes a burden once society manages to turn it into the expectation that now all women have to want sex without consequence, and should deny all desires for traveling the road of motherhood instead.
“Freedom” is simply the ability to make choices, for me.
May 29, 2013 at 3:40 pm
We are in agreement about that Rachel Blum. We are not yet to the place where choice = freedom. And I wonder if part of the problem is that we seek to free ourselves from the very biology of being human, and yet we are mortal still and in denial of that fact. If I personally had it to do all over again I seriously doubt I would do it the same way and champion my supposed freedom. I am a huge believer in women’s long term physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, creative and financial health. I am not sure all of the pills that women are subscribing to support those things. As for the long term physical and brain health, G+ has its very own brilliant champion and source of information for that and if you women (and men) are not subscribing to her profile you should be. She is the one and only Kim Crawford M.D. – Anti-Aging Doctor Florida. Kim Crawford. The information she shares about physical and brain (and therefore psychological?) health is extraordinary.
May 29, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Indeed Lance Hagood. It took me a long time to learn to fly, to cook, to design, to write, to Tango, to do everything in fact and I am still learning. Sadly, we have relegated our sensual selves to the sexual dust bin, when we ought perhaps to be making our lives 23/4/365 more sensual, more alive, more feelingful, more appreciative, more…well…sensual.
We have, I think, very narrowly defined our sexuality to center around our ovaries and our gonads. Which makes sense given that science is forever looking for planets and orbs and things that are round around which everything is supposed to center and orbit.
What if that “thing” around which our sexuality orbits is in our hearts…not some synapse in our brains…
May 29, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Giselle Minoli Ah, we’ll have to agree to disagree about that part, then. For me personally, I believe biology is merely an inconvenience 🙂
May 29, 2013 at 4:12 pm
Rachel Blum I admire that belief. When you figure out how to best your biology and live forever, will you tell me the secret? I would love to know! ;_
May 29, 2013 at 4:22 pm
Giselle Minoli That one is easy. We live on in the people whose lives we touched. In the things we have created, the knowledge we have uncovered.
The particular body we have will die. That’s the inconvenient part. But it doesn’t need to stop us 🙂
May 29, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Rachel Blum that’s just it, apart from the (temporary) inconvenience of pregnancy itself, a woman could, in theory, have the kid, drop it off at the man’s doorstep and say “oops, you’re f*ed!” and walk away. Or, if you don’t want kids, you could give it up for adoption (which is what, in a way, the man does when he walks away from the situation). But we don’t, because we’re taught that a woman must look after the kids. And it’s not just because we’re the ones getting pregnant, in nature there are species where the female has the kid, and then the male looks after it, so it’s really not pure biology.
Men don’t feel the same way about it because they don’t have to face the consequences the same way women do.
Because they’re not brought up to do so, the same way women are. They don’t play with dollies, feeding them, pushing them around in toy pushchairs, dressing them… we teach our girls to be the child carers from a very early age, they are taught to expect that to be part of their lives.
May 29, 2013 at 4:30 pm
I read the Pew research report that came out today. Women are 40 percent of the breadwinners now in America. We’ve seen a complete change in society in two generations. The upheaval that has created is being felt from the boardroom to the bedroom and we have not begun to figure out how to handle it.
May 29, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Please continue…I am most interested in what you all have to say….’crept I must drive now….my iPad at my side, my inconvenient body unable to transport me at will!
May 29, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Human sexuality and the cultural horror shows it has to seek and find itself in is a little more complex for what a pill could do. The human mind is more complex for any pill, period. Without looking at the piece, I can only imagine the pharmaceutical industry being behind this.
May 29, 2013 at 5:28 pm
Brad Esau in general, yes, pharma. But in one of the many crazy twists in this article, the specific motivation for the particular drug being developed is the hurt feelings of a man. You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried:
When Tuiten, a disheveled, youthful 58-year-old, told me the story of how he conceived of Lybrido and Lybridos, there was something sad and funny and metaphorically perfect about it — it was a tale of scientific ingenuity stemming from a young man’s broken heart. Tuiten was in his mid-20s when his girlfriend, a woman he’d been in love with since he was 13, abruptly decided to leave him. “I was — flabbergasted. You can say that?” he asked me, making sure, in his choppy English, that he was using the right word. “I was shocked. I was suffering.” He was an older university student at the time; before that, he’d been a furniture maker. The breakup inspired a lifelong quest to comprehend female emotion through biochemistry and led to his career as a psychopharmacologist. “I’m a little bit — not insane,” Tuiten said. “But. There became a need for me to understand my personal life in this way.”
May 29, 2013 at 5:50 pm
I believe you misread my post. It is not omen who are complaining about their biology. It is the culture they live in and shoving fixes down their throats for things that are natural to being a woman. Women are fine. Big pharmacy is declaring them victims of their biology and prescribing pills for them. You could blame women fornthatnif you like but that too misses the whole point.
May 29, 2013 at 5:53 pm
Giselle Minoli I dig how you used “omen” instead of “women.”
I’ve dated women who could have starred in “The Omen V, VI, VII, VII, IX, X.”
May 29, 2013 at 5:58 pm
If I find out that ‘oman Giselle Minoli is plussing while driving, I’m going to be a little upset!
May 29, 2013 at 11:19 pm
OMG Brian Titus almost but you know I would never do that. Starbucks. Iced coffee. 97 degrees. IPad. Arrived on the other side. The “omanessa” is in heaven.
May 30, 2013 at 2:06 am
I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with LC Freiderici. I make the point quite clearly that doctors, and big pharma are making a lot of money off of this effort. That is clear. But it is not true that men and/or women are rejecting the cultural notion that there is “something wrong with them.” We are not enlightened or aware or willing to take a stand on these issues. I think it is naive to think that a young girl whose mother buys her a nose job or a boob job for her 18th birthday can figure out how to reject these notions. There are young girls, and I meet them every single day of my professional life, who have been taught these things from a very young age. Parents are teaching these belief systems to their children and those children are growing up insecure. Where I meet someone who does not subscribe to any of this, I can almost always point to a direct and concerted education against it.
I would not have taken issue with the article had it been, “Here’s a little pill for those of you who want some extra Mojo.” But that is not what the article purports. The pill is based on biased (though they pretend not to be biased) studies that suggest some underlying truths about “the way women are,” or “what’s so for women,” or “this is what is true,” and I’m only suggesting none of it is true. It is a belief system that has been cobbled together over the course of many, many years and people are being affected by it because they…. live inside the culture that promotes these beliefs.
May 30, 2013 at 3:36 am
I’m sorry but I have absolutely no idea what article you are talking about that refers to “all” women or what generalization you are referring to. The statistics about more women in graduate school have nothing to do with the article, as fabulous as that is LC Freiderici. I think we read different articles and sense you didn’t read the one I attached. I am referring to the NY Times article that is about the apparent need for a “pill” to increase female sexual desire, and studies which are being published that seem to support that, which I think is unfortunate because, as my post clearly states, I think women are beautiful as they are. My post is about loving one another as “us as humans.” But you are free to interpret it as is appropriate for you.
May 30, 2013 at 3:55 am
That statement is a response to one specific article and the claims made about women within that one specific article LC Freiderici, claims that I question the validity of. I wrote a post in support of women, which you don’t see, or don’t want to see for whatever reason. I stand by my statement that developing a pill to “fix” women is wrong-minded. I am fine if you disagree with me. I sense you didn’t read the article.
May 30, 2013 at 4:09 am
LC Freiderici again, I don’t know where your comments are coming from and I’m going to leave it at that. There is absolutely nothing in my post that is against men – it is from start to finish – about creating a pill to “fix” women – but you are wedded to your interpretation and, how you interpret it is up to you. I am fine with that.
May 30, 2013 at 4:32 am
Well, the world is complex, and there are multiple angles one can take to discuss the different problems that we have perceived. But, ultimately, it’s all a self-reinforcing tangled mess that will take generations of effort to undo.
When it comes to discussions on sexual desire, and how males and females differ, the discourse almost inevitable goes towards studies which state the nature is for males to have a higher sex-drive, and that pretty much no study (in modern times) has a result contrary to this. Yet, why focus on whether there’s a biological component to this discrepancy, when there’s nothing to do about it? Why don’t we focus on the social component? If there’s an apparent gap in libido between males and females that favours males, then why is our society trying to widen that gap rather than diminish it? It would be less of a hassle, and more convenient for all involved, if males and females equally desired sexual satisfaction, can that not we agree on? (there’s of course the issue of respecting free will, but let’s admit it: social messages are all a sort of accepted indoctrination. If we are going to have any, they may as well be healthy… :/)
However, this article, as Giselle Minoli points out, is most likely aiming to the wrong solution. We are increasingly becoming a society where we don’t nurture a healthy mind & body, instead attempting to create broken shells which require small fortunes invested in “solutions” when really, the most effective solution to most of humanity’s ills is love, affection, and acceptance.
Women have it worse than men, but looking beyond that, you could make an argument that everybody is being hurt in one way or another. And yet, why do we not change? Why does society resists such positive change? I imagine because society, as a means of personal identity, requires to reinforce itself. It doesn’t matter how hazardous it might be, all that matters is that society must not change, or its members will lose their identity. Certainly, social inertia is hardly optimal, but… we have all heard the phrase, “we fear change,” don’t we? Well, society is the collective result of that mindset over a larger swath of the population.
May 30, 2013 at 4:41 am
Walther M.M. I’m with Lance Hagood. Lovers, no matter the composition, need time together. The route to that love, affection and acceptance is spending quality time together methinks. Anything we want to create of value…takes time…
May 30, 2013 at 4:46 am
That Walther M.M. and Lance Hagood and we could all benefit from learning to do this: Rudolpho Valentino and Vaslav Nijinsky – Tango
May 30, 2013 at 4:59 am
Seriously Lance Hagood that is so lovely. Lucky girl. Lucky guy!
May 30, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Wow,as usual what a great post by the lovely Giselle Minoli who has somehow managed to escape or if not escape,deal very functionally with the dreaded scourges. It truly amazes me that when I see a male patient;he is usually a high level executive,overweight,balding,sun-damaged and he looks in the mirror and says oh boy I’m great….AND his beautiful younger wife is already onto her 2nd plastic surgery, is truly already beautiful, is pre-menopausal but mirror-gazing all day in fear of losing her looks. Often, this wife is NOT a “trophy wife”…she is smart and talented and although she may not make as much $, she is right up there. Ahhhh what a double standard that seems to be in our collective DNA.
May 30, 2013 at 2:16 pm
And your summary, in a nutshell Kim Crawford, is exactly why I found the attached article disturbing. That double-standard – of self-identity, of self-confidence, of whatever any individual wants to call it, is what Big Pharma and plastic surgeons know/expect/experience is the case with women and it is the dilemma into which they intentionally play, and on which double-standard they place their bets. While the money is pouring in, the self-confidence level of women is not improving. A woman’s physicality does not necessarily indicate how she feels about herself. I went to a dermatologist recently for a regular sun damage scan and she said, “I don’t have any women patients who are happy with the way they look.” It was such a revealing and interesting comment – from a professional.
May 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Absolutely right Giselle Minoli . I have a good friend who is a cosmetic dermatologist and she tells me women in their late 20’s are coming in for botox! Imagine that? I didn’t even blink until I was 40 and I’m sure that’s true of you,too.
And,sadly enough,OUR blink is different somehow than the average woman’s blink.
It isn’t just that we are genetically blessed;it’s that somehow we got the message that we are just fine,we are loved,and although we DO take care of ourselves,it isn’t the primary focus.
And you bet the pharmaceutical industry plays into it, the Plastic surgeons play into it and geez, what is the male equivalent of the Victoria Secret catalogue which IS of course what we all should look like,right???? Yea,riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
May 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Years ago, Kim Crawford, when I was in Rome I was having dinner at this lovely smallish restaurant and this family – a man and wife and their three children, all of whom were in their teenaged years from what I could see – came in and sat down at this big round table. The mother was stunning, in a way that women in the States are often afraid of…meaning that she had a full head of once blackish/brown hair tumbling down her back and it was completely Salt and Pepper. She was wearing only bright red lipstick, her lived in and stunning face wrinkled and sun-kissed.
The five of them chatted continually throughout their dinner, the conversation spiced with lots of laughter. Her husband’s hand was on the middle of her back the entire time. I grew up knowing women like that. I always told myself…I want to grow up and have that confidence and sense of myself when I get older. I have never forgotten this Roman woman’s face, and feel like I could pick her out in a crowd tomorrow!
May 30, 2013 at 2:55 pm
That is a great story Giselle Minoli and that is you minus the wrinkles,no insult intended (LOL). I too want to age like this. It is way too much trouble to try to even think about NOT aging like this,with the disclaimer due to my profession here that because of good diet,supplements, BHRT I look (and professionally DO have to look) healthy and younger than my age. And a footnote about libidos…..women all lost testosterone and I see no reason not to replace it….men think nothing of responding to the Low-T ads so why would it not be OK for women to fix aging libidos with safe BHRT therapy?
What I’m saying is yes,age gracefully,don’t get plastic surgery or,in the words of Gloria Steinem you’ll look tighter,not younger. But DO do everything you can to stay healthy and that will translate to external youth as well. I think THAT is fine,obviously.
May 30, 2013 at 3:27 pm
You know that I agree with you about BHRT. Women are simply living longer and longer and longer and they (and men) need a healthily balanced hormone system. This issue, however, is totally different (to me) than Big Pharma pills which prey on insecurity. There is a different between proactively taking care of one’s total health – mental, psychological, physical, creative, financial…everything – and thinking that one pill will solve everything in one swallow. I didn’t know Gloria said “tighter, not younger.” Hilarious. I would, however, say “stretched…not younger.”
May 30, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Yes,I agree that this is a separate issue,indeed. I was talking with my husband about my patients and when I did the statistics it blew me away. 75% of my Female patients presented to me on anti-depressants whereas 10% of my men did. I was easily able to wean everyone. So that speaks VOLUMES to me. A man says he feels blue and he gets his testosterone checked. Women are slammed onto anti-depressants at an ALARMING rate.
And yes I know you are all in favor of being proactive about health and that yes indeed this is another issue….as I said before,our society seems to have it in our DNA. We would have to do a lot of a-changin’ to make this situation different. And yes,dear Gloria said just that…..but yep,tighter is another very apt description. The worst look is paper-thin sun-damaged skin that is stretched like a worn out paint canvas by a Plastic Surgeon who OUGHT to know better…..
May 30, 2013 at 4:25 pm
I love this Georgia O’Keeffe quote, Kim Crawford: “I think it’s so foolish for people to want to be happy. Happy is so momentary–you’re happy for an instant and then you start thinking again. Interest is the most important thing in life; happiness is temporary, but interest is continuous.”
I think we could say the same thing about being young – it is so momentary – and about having a constant Mojo – it ebbs and flows, as well. But to take care of our brains, our inner selves, our hearts, minds, spirits, to me this is tremendously sexy. Who said sex happens between the ears? That always made sense to me….
May 30, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Morning, Daniela Huguet Taylor…I see you!
May 30, 2013 at 4:34 pm
And I say who defines youth? I have known 30 y/o people who look and act “old”….won’t come and “play” (ski, windsurf,rock-climb,roller-blade) because “that’s for kids” and I know 75 y/o’s who are younger than teens in terms of their spirit. THAT is youth to me….the ability to not categorize what one should and should not do,dress like, wear hair length at, play,laugh,enjoy because “it’s not appropriate”. I love Georgia O’Keefe and she is right but she was also happy…..and who defines,THAT,either,right??
I agree with what you are saying in your second paragraph….
And also think it’s no coincidence that those people who DO take care of those things ARE sexy…you betcha baby!
May 30, 2013 at 4:36 pm
Morning, dear!
I’m enjoying the conversation… take me as sitting there, nodding my head at the good bits. 😉
May 30, 2013 at 5:24 pm
Giselle Minoli This would make a fabulous audio discussion.
May 30, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Our fee is $500/hr apiece and we’d be delighted…..
May 30, 2013 at 6:08 pm
Roaring Kim Crawford. James Barraford Kim and I have spoken at length on the phone and there would have to be a little buzzer telling each of us our time is up and to shut up!
May 30, 2013 at 6:10 pm
True,very true but if James would like to hire us to chat then I’m game! Teasing,James!
May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Giselle Minoli Kim Crawford That would be better on video.
May 30, 2013 at 6:19 pm
Well then for video we charge $1000 per hour and again,we’d be delighted!
May 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm
‘Scuse me, Kim Crawford but you left out the Hair & Make-Up fee (an appropriate topic given this thread…don’t you think?).
May 30, 2013 at 7:02 pm
Oh, From my TV days,I assumed we’d get wardrobe,hair and makeup allowances….just a given. ROFL. Speaking of TV,there is ONE serious female journalist on TV who is “not good looking” and overweight. Just one. Start thinking of all the men. And the men STILL get paid more. My agent used to tell me who was making what and the MEN were always paid more!
May 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Ahem……
May 30, 2013 at 7:06 pm
I bet I have as long a hair or more than either of you. Who does mine? Giselle Minoli Kim Crawford M.D. – Anti-Aging Doctor Florida
May 30, 2013 at 7:11 pm
You can share our hairdresser if you are nice….LOL
May 30, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Possibly James Barraford but I seriously doubt that when people look at your hair they comment on anything other than the fact that it is long. They are not silently (or verbally) commenting on the color, and whether it’s right for you at your age, and asking whether or not it might be time for you to cut your hair because, you know, you’ve reached a certain age and don’t you think you just might be pushing the envelope a little (which women get about wearing blue jeans as well). Anyway, I digress (who threadjacked this post anyway? Was it you Jamie? Or me?)
Kim Crawford…the divine Candy Crowley, Yes? Respect her. There is also the great Donna Brazile and there is the brilliant Christiane Amanpour. These are all extremely talent and great looking women in my view…
May 30, 2013 at 7:17 pm
Giselle Minoli You threadjacked your own post. If you don’t think there are serious judgments made towards mens appearance…. if may not be the same as a woman’s, but there certainly is in terms of perception and status, opportunity etc…
Candy Crowley…… uh no. Talented, yes.
May 30, 2013 at 7:17 pm
Giselle Minoli we women get the comments on what’s appropriate but do you REALLY think that James gets comments? I think society gives men much more of a pass. Imagine a 70 y/o woman exec with a 40 y/o man…..oh,goodness…but not a blink if it’s the other way around. I think Donna and Christianne are both what society would call good looking “enough” for TV. I totally respect the journalistic skills of Candy…big time,and I mean no disrespect to her at all;she is just defying the odds of being a public voice on TV,that’s all. Which brings us back to doe-ray-mi-fa-so-la-ti-doe……the TOPIC!!!!
May 30, 2013 at 7:22 pm
I do remember the day when Katie Couric Botoxed every line right off her face. The oddity of a female newscaster who looks as though she is made of wax is so odd. And I remember the brouhaha over Leslie Stahl. The pressure is immense. I do think, however, Kim Crawford that in that field there is tremendous pressure on men as well. No, it isn’t the same but gone are the Walter Cronkites of the world, too. I’m sad that Barbara Walters is retiring. But she’s been at it a long, long time and I wish her well.
May 30, 2013 at 7:32 pm
There is a LOT of plastic surgery on TV and it is very obvious who has had it and who hasn’t (anyone??!) and that includes the males….remember seeing an expressionless Bob Costas at the Olympics? Yes,indeed there is now a ton of pressure and I agree the Walter Cronkites of the world would be told they have a perfect face for radio…..
I love too Barbara but she deserves to go traveling or whatever she wants to do. Bye and good luck Barbara from Giselle and Kim!
May 30, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Kim Crawford Giselle Minoli This topic has so many tentacles. Parts pertain to women, lesser parts to men, and many overall to the perceptions on attractiveness and worth that we attach to both sexes… and not just in the field of physical sex. The conditioning is so broad on what constitutes value in a person based on physical beauty, clothes, language, education, ethnic background, etc.
We are all guilty. That is not an attempt to negate the original post here.
I empathize with you women talking of thoughts and experiences not just because I was fortunate enough to have a mom that taught me that objectifying is cruel, degrading, and wrong, but because in a quirky way I’ve been a life-long subject of discrimination and assumption based on appearance.
I have a rather large birthmark on the side of my face and neck. I’ve been the subject of a lifetime of cruelty for nothing more than something that happened during birth. It has made dating challenging a few times, and it certainly cost me job opportunities being as my positions have always been working within the public eye. I could dress in a suit (which I do now everyday) and to some it didnt matter. Like women who walk out of an interview knowing that having a vagina killed their chance at a dream job they were qualified for, I knew that I wasn’t getting the job within seconds of sitting down for no valid reason.
Again, I’m not equating my situation to many womens situation. But what I am saying is there is a greater dialogue that both genders need to have and more education on acceptance of gender, race, disabilities, etc…. in terms of the home, workplace, and the outer environment of humanity.
Until we involve everyone in that discussion, it’s going to be very hard to reach true equality in all those realms. How to do that…. I’m not smart enough to say.
May 30, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Kim Crawford this is slight off topic, but not really. Did you read today’s brouhaha about Dr. Butler and the class of drugs used to treat Diabetes 2? I do not trust Big Pharma from here to the other side of the room. This take a pill for this, take a pill for that mentality, rather than making ourselves healthy from the inside out, scares me. As people get older, they have to take even greater, better care of themselves, n’est ce pas? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/31/business/a-doctor-raises-questions-about-a-diabetes-drug.html?hp
May 30, 2013 at 7:53 pm
You get no quibble from me there James Barraford. It is in fact, quite supportive of my post, although the topic of “appearance” is different. Yes, we are a culture obsessed with appearance. And in competitive times it worsens. I empathize with what you went through…and am sorry that you had to. The good news is that your spirit is a generous and giving one in spite of it!
May 30, 2013 at 7:55 pm
James Barraford well we all know that what you’re describing is just plain WRONG but we all know that we’re a “visual society” and I can see this happening. What a shame. I hope some smart employer figured it out and I hope some great woman you deserve figures it out too!
Giselle Minoli I DID read the Times (as I do each AM) and this has been brewing a long time. I don’t trust big Pharma as you know and even common drugs everyone takes casually like,for instance Prilosec….cause cancer in animals…in prilosec’s case,of the stomach. It has been said over and over that 3 or more pharmaceuticals increase your mortality from all causes as we cannot predict side effects past 3 drugs. I get my patients off of all of this poison straight away…..if they are long term hypertensives,the arteries are stiff and I need an antihypertensive drug….but so many others are just thrown at patients right and left;makes me literally sick.
Catch both of you incredibly interesting people later!!!
May 30, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Yes,I agree with Giselle Minoli that your spirit is very giving James Barraford ;a woman would be lucky to have you!
I’m back…..LOL. Wow this is one long stream!
May 31, 2013 at 10:25 am
Kim Crawford M.D. – Anti-Aging Doctor Florida My long suffering wife may disagree. 🙂
May 31, 2013 at 1:25 pm
LOL I doubt it James Barraford and happy TGIF to you!
May 31, 2013 at 9:06 pm
Denis Wallez has this afternoon written a thoughtful and quite “loving” post on Feminine Meditation, which resonates with me and speaks in curious ways to this post about “curing” a woman’s lack of desire with a pill. How it resonates with me will most likely be quite different than how it might resonate with you all and I wanted to share it in case you do not have Denis in your Circles and hadn’t seen it.
Many sentences stopped me, such as: “As women, unless you give yourself permission to let meditation be sensuous and voluptuous, you might limit your experience and the associated insights…” I don’t want to give it all away because it’s such a great post – for women and for men – but here’s another, “Find peace with the skin you’re in. Don’t cover, don’t hide, don’t be ashamed of any moment of ‘earthiness’ (the Buddha took the Earth as witness when Māra challenged him in an attempt to prevent his awakening…), don’t appropriate the ‘male’ mistake of separating body and mind and, worse, of ‘ranking’ them! Let go of any obsession with perfection, of the need to always be in control!”
So…you may read the post for yourself here: https://plus.google.com/106651989741536097256/posts/HNVXqNHWSFx What a nice way to begin a weekend – meditating on the feminine.
Thank you ALL for your support of this post and for your comments, and time, and energy and for sharing yourselves with me…always..
May 31, 2013 at 10:32 pm
Denis Wallez rocks my world.
May 31, 2013 at 10:55 pm
Do not tell him Jack C Crawford. Denis Wallez will get a fat Buddhist head!
June 1, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Morning jyothi sriram. Thank you. And you’re welcome…
June 2, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Ah, jyothi sriram, thank you for those words…which come to me from you all the way around the world. In your profession you must have your own deep sense of so many of the issues that women face. I so appreciate your taking the time to read and to comment. Cheers to you.
June 2, 2013 at 8:21 pm
Well. I went here just to know you, to read some your post, the idea idea was to find a way to thank you for your so much kind words and this is the first your post I read.. In Italy we say something that sounds like “you see the good day by the morning”. My sincere compliments, you are the kind of woman that world needs. And about the pil, i said in another post, talking about the culture clash with american natives, that our culture is getting weak day by day, looses pieces and the worst, buys and sells things that should be priceless, the love of real woman is a very good example: what you expect from people that builds inflatable dolls, to get a woman that never talks?
June 2, 2013 at 8:35 pm
And Hello, again Umberto Orefice. I can “hear” you speaking English when I read your words and I love the sound of it. Italy is my favorite country to visit and I have not been in three years now. Come si dice “you see the good day by the morning,” in Italiano?
Yes, your country, which has always made so very many beautiful things and the people from which know the value of preserving and conserving is having a very hard time, as is ours in many similar ways. We have so much, but I think, No, we do not appreciate what we have…quite possibly because we have a sense of there always being more.
I love what you wrote…”What do you expect from a people who make inflatable dolls? They get a woman who never talks.” This is fantastic.
But not me, Umberto Orefice. I talk. And so do you. Piacere…degli stati uniti! Grazie…